Ep #222: Finding The College Fit That Feels Like Home—with Dr. Pamela Ellis

Welcome to Real World Peaceful Parenting, a podcast for parents that are tired of yelling, threatening, and punishing their kids. Join mom and master certified parent coach Lisa Smith as she gives you actionable step-by-step strategies that’ll help you transform your household from chaos to cooperation.

Let’s dive in.

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Today’s episode. Listen y’all, today I am jacked through the roof with my energy because we have a very special guest today. Dr. Pamela is joining us, and y’all, you’re in for a treat, especially if you have a tween, teen, or student in college. You are going to get some gifts today that you don’t even know you needed.

So let me tell you about Dr. Pamela and then we’ll jump into the juicy conversation. Dr. Pamela is an educator specializing in college preparation as well as a known speaker. I wish that she would’ve come into my life years ago, but here she is now. She has 30 years of experience as a successful college coach.

She is the founder of the college Advisory and this woman and her team. Are y’all ready for this? Have helped families save $27 million. Through scholarship awards. Let that sink in for a minute. So yeah, listen up. Turn up your volume because she’s gonna help us learn today how you and your family can save money on for college, on college, while having an amazing experience.

Dr. Pamela helps students uncover their why for attending college and envision their future. With her experiencing college admissions, she assists families in finding the right college. It feels like home. I got a kid, this college feels like home, so I am so excited to bring this information to you because if you have a student, a child going to technical school or college, I want them.

To have an experience that feels like home. We want that experience to be successful and rewarding and help them with their life goals. We ain’t got a single dollar to waste today on college ’cause it is so expensive. So we together, Dr. Pamela and I wanna make sure that your kid goes to college with the intention of achieving their life goals.

Now listen y’all. She has a PhD from Stanford, which I am not gonna hold against her as a University of Arizona graduate. I’m not gonna hold her Stanford PhD against her, but she does have one. She’s also the author of two books, uh, climate Connection, American Student Voices, and What to Know Before They Go The College Edition.

So join me in welcoming Dr. Pamela to real world peaceful parenting. We’re so excited to have you here. Lisa, thank you. Oh my goodness. That intro was amazing. You got me all giddy about the interview, but thank you. That’s awesome. So very much. Awesome. We have a good time here. Yes, we will. And I just wanna say briefly before we jump in, just how much I appreciate you and what you’re bringing out to the world your audience are.

I mean, they’re just so lucky to have you as a host. I love your authenticity. And just the way you show up with each episode, and so to all of your listeners. I wanna remind them now to go out and do their five star review so that they remember to do that. Okay? Okay. Thank you. Please listen to Dr. Pamela, she’s wise.

I will take a five star review. Thank you very much and if you wanna leave a review about this specific episode, ’cause I’m just telling you in advance, we’re gonna knock your socks off then feel free to do that as well. Alright, Dr. Pamela, tell us. Why you’re passionate about helping families find a home for their kids.

Talk to the parents and explain this to us. Oh my goodness, Lisa, I’m gonna start with the short of it. When my mom dropped me off at college, she gave me $70, and I was so excited to have that $70 I was planning on it lasting me the whole school year and. After she left, the next day I went to the bookstore and my books for the first quarter were $350, and I had no idea.

That just seemed like so much money to me at that time. I was a first generation, you know, college student and also a first generation high school graduate, so my mom had no idea. And neither did I. And that just really in some ways broke my spirit. And I still continued. I ended up graduating in four years with only $10,000 in loans.

However, when I became a mom, I mean, I just, everything shifted, you know? And I had a new found appreciation for all that I had gone through and. Being a mom, I really wanted the best for my kids as all of us do as parents. And I wanted to figure it out, you know, how do I support them as they’re navigating through, you know, high school and on to college.

And that’s what led me to even going back to get my doctorate degree. And my work is around high school to college transition. So what support students would being. Successful as they navigate through high school and go on to thriving college. And I know that as a mom so many times, our kids are getting information at school and we’re not.

We’re in the background doing a lot of work. Yep. And sometimes doing things for them. And I wanted to change that. And so my practice in my firm is really about. Families and we’re supporting the students. We’re partnering with the parents because we know that as time starved, as we all are, um, parents, you know, really do value that additional support in really making sure that their kids are thriving and they do find a place that feels like home.

That’s so important because oftentimes their kids are. Getting to college and leaving after freshman year, and no one, no. No parent wants to see that in their child. Yes. You know, the reason I wanted to have you on is because our stories are very parallel. I am the first person in my family ever. To go and graduate from college.

And it, I didn’t go to college right away after high school ’cause I didn’t even know how to go to college. Right, right. So I worked for a little bit and I turned out, I had champagne taste on a beer budget. And, uh, my grandfather said to me, who is my favorite human being ever? You know, I, I think you’re gonna need to upgrade your hourly wage in some way.

And so I, I. Found my way. Literally, I called a community college and said, how do I go here? You know, and they guided me and then I, and so fast forward, I, I have my son and I want him to have a completely different experience. Right? Much like you. I wanted him to have choices and opportunities, right? And also really think about.

Where was he going to match up the best? Where was gonna be the best home for him to not only thrive during the four years, which I, for the listeners, I’ll remind you, I have a sophomore in college. Mm-hmm. Not only thrive, but come out the other end with a game plan. Right. A plan that, right? Mm-hmm. I don’t want my kid to feel like, well, why did I do those four years?

Yeah. I wasted money. And now I don’t know what to, what to do with my degree. Can you give parents some guidance on that and how to think about picking a college? Absolutely, and that’s really our sweet spot is the college fit and finding those great colleges that are a match. The first thing I’ll share with your listeners, Lisa, is that there are dozens of colleges that are a good fit.

For their team. And oftentimes we only think about the colleges that are nearby, or brand names that we’ve heard of and really not doing the due diligence around what are the other great colleges that are fit for my team. My team. And the process always starts with your team. So what we do. Is we give, um, we do an exercise where we talk about the five factors of fit.

And so parents can do this themselves where they, you know, do this with their teen to say, okay, what are these five factors and how they apply to their teens. So that’s academic, social, financial, vocational, which is thinking about what they’re gonna do after college, and then cultural. And so applying those five factors to their teen and then laying that on to the colleges, because then that will give them that confluence of, you know, a couple of, a few dozen of colleges that would be a great place for their teen.

And then it’s about learning about those colleges, exploring, having an opportunity to visit. To then determine if that’s a college where they will apply. And do you encourage parents and students to give each of those five areas equal weighting or, I do. Okay. Yeah. And those five factors fit like a glove.

All of them are important. And so when you think about the academic, that’s what they’re thinking about majoring in. Or maybe they don’t know what they’re majoring in. And then also how they learn, you know, like what supports them with learning best. Secondly, for the social fit, how do they make friends?

Financially, what does it take to make college affordable for the family, the vocational, what is it that they’re thinking about doing after college? Because as you know, especially from a liberal arts institution, I mean, there’s a wide range of resources that are there available as well to support students with figuring that out, even if they don’t know.

And so thinking about the what, what is it? For after college. And culturally it’s just what are the ways they may be different from other kids on that campus, because I’m sure like with your sophomore going to a college in the Midwest, uh, that’s a cultural difference for him coming from a beautiful place with 300 over 300 days of sunshine in Arizona.

And so. Thinking about that as well and how those five come together to really say that yes, this college is the one, and they all do have equal weighting. I like that. I like that. You know, it’s interesting because my son, we lived in Boston when he was little. Mm-hmm. And then we moved to California for a while and then we moved to Arizona and one of the things.

We did a graph like that early on when he was looking at schools. He got recruited to quite a few schools to play basketball and so we created a rating system and one of the things he really wanted was a new geographic and a new cultural experience for himself. He did not wanna stay in the same climate and be around the same kind of people.

And we often have these really deep conversations about how different Midwesterners are. Yeah. Than people on the West coast and he, he’s really enjoyed expanding his thinking of, you know, culture and diversity and diversity. Not only just, mm-hmm. Of. People and background in skin color, but socioeconomic Yes.

Values, Midwestern values versus mm-hmm. West Coast values. And it, it’s really contributed to maturing his thinking, I think in many ways. And that was really important to him. Yeah, it definitely does. It definitely does. And you know, sometimes when I am talking with students on the east or west coast, they’ll often say, I wanna look at colleges everywhere except the Midwest.

So I’m thinking like, what is that supposed to mean? And I have a young woman now who is actually looking at a college in the Midwest, and she was one of those students who said. Only east or west coast and really surprised by, you know, what that college has to offer. And so it definitely matures students as they are opening up.

You know, their thoughts and getting a sense for the full aspects of a college as opposed to prejudging to say that, Nope, if it’s in this area or this locale, I don’t wanna look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Let me ask you this question that I think a lot of people are gonna really appreciate me asking.

Let’s say you’re working with two families and one family. Their sophomore or junior in high school knows exactly what they wanna major in. And not that we don’t often change our majors when we get somewhere. Mm-hmm. But they have a clear vision of their future. And then you’re working with another family whose kid is the same age and has no idea.

What they wanna do with their life. Let’s say that we’re talking the transition between junior and senior year, so we’re a little further down the path. How, how would you advise, because I, I talk to a lot of parents who are getting close to the college process, but they’re, they’re stressed or frustrated because their kid does not know what they wanna do.

How does your advisory and differ Yeah. You know, I feel in so many ways, Lisa, that worry about it is misplaced. For example, I said I had a major when I was going in. I ended up changing my major at least seven times in freshman year. I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. And that’s the case oftentimes with so many students.

And what we do is when we look at those five factors of fit, the two that are gonna be most affected by, you know, being undecided, will be the academic and the vocational fit. And so with those two students, you know, they’re gonna have a different set of colleges. In many cases, um, given that one knows specifically what they wanna do and the other one doesn’t, the outcomes are still positive and a plus because the key thing is for some students, they do need that time to explore and figure out what they want to do.

And that is okay. Some colleges even encourage when students have disparate interests or if they’re interested in science and they’re also interested in art and they encourage that they have programs for it. Some colleges will have dual, you know, double majors and there’ll be ways that students can still thrive, whether or not they know what their major is going in.

Right, that, that makes sense. We’re supportive of that because we’re always starting with the student first as opposed to thinking about, well, does this college require that you have a major in order to be competitive? We’re not thinking about it that way. We’re starting with the student and it’s about what’s gonna be a great fit for them.

Okay. I have another important question for you. That comes up a lot. When I’m coaching parents of high school students, I. Let’s say that, um, I didn’t save a lot of money. I, I don’t have a money or a lot of money to contribute to my child’s college education. Mm-hmm. And they’re aiming for, you know, a pretty expensive marquee school.

Yeah. Do I, do you recommend the parent is honest with the kid from the beginning, or do you recommend. Let the kid apply and see what happens, and then have a conversation about what’s possible financially. I think it should be a conversation that’s taking place as you know, earlier in the process. I think that the transparency will be great, uh, for the relationship.

Mm-hmm. Because the main thing you wanna keep intact through such a stressful period is. The relationship that’s primary. On the other hand, I do encourage families not to decide based on the sticker price because it is just that a sticker price across the country, 20% nationally are full pay, and so the rest are getting some monies for college.

And just today, Harvard announced that if your income is $200,000 a year, the tuition is free. And so the conversation can be more about, you know, how that teen is preparing. And the the ways that they’re contributing and engaging and the teacher recommendations and their essays. So some of those other qualitative things that make them a great candidate as opposed to only looking at the financial side of it.

And the financial is still part of those five factors. And so it could be too, looking at colleges where you don’t have any loans as part of the. Package or looking at colleges that also have scholarships, if your routine is interested in doing research or if they are interested in studying abroad.

There there’s, so there’s a myriad of ways that colleges make it affordable for families and it goes so much further beyond what the sticker price is. And you can see that in their financial. You know, fine print, you know, what is the average paid, you know, ’cause it’s probably a lot less than what they have posted.

Yeah. And so keeping, we had that experience too. Malcolm School kept offering, you know, like if you take this, this course online, you get a thousand dollars off a year and for doing this, you get this amount. And, and they just kept offering more and more discounts off the tuition. And then we approach them about some discounts as well, and.

Yes, you have to, you have to do the work, but the opportunity is there, wouldn’t you say? Yes, it absolutely is there. And even something, um, kind of basic as completing fafsa. You know, one of my dads, um, he’s a physician, his wife is a physician. He didn’t want to fill out fafsa, but I encouraged him to anyway.

And when he did, Lisa. The college that his daughter was most excited for, she’s an equestrian, and they already had offered her a really good package. They gave them an additional 12,000 because he filled out fafsa. So it’s really a win win. And I will say though, that FAFSA form, that thing is a beast. Yes, it can be.

But here’s the nice, the good part is you can link it to your tax return and it will retrieve the data. And so that makes it much easier. And I assume that’s something you assist with when people work with you. Yes, yes, absolutely. I don’t get into their data and look at their numbers or anything, but absolutely we do assist with that and we encourage using the data retrieval tool if they’ve done their taxes, so that it makes it a lot easier to complete.

Okay. Here’s my next question or or ask of you. Would you share with us three things? That you wish every parent knew when they start this process with their kid, and I’m hoping one of them is that you speak about how to preserve the relationship during this stressful time. Yeah, I’m definitely gonna talk about that because that’s so important.

The first thing I would say is the realization that. The process starts with their team. It’s not about the colleges, the sticker price or anything else. It starts with their team, who they are and what their why is. Why is it that they even want to go? That’s the starting point. Secondly, there are dozens of colleges that are out there that are a great fit for them.

And thirdly. I highly recommend getting support and partnering so that parents can also still learn how to let go during this phase, and that means still taking time for themselves, doing self-care if they’re married, still dating during this process because so much of their energy. And their own self-regulation, as you have spoken about, is going to impact their team.

And the process can be stressful on its own. Mm-hmm. But when you’re partnering with someone who is doing that legwork, uh, the advising around the colleges and everything that allows that parent to, to really be the parent during that time. And preserving that wonderful relationship that they have with their team before they go away to college.

Yeah. I, I wanna support what you just said with my own experience. You know, you all listeners know I have a kid that I, we call a full contact sport. I mean, this kid is strong-willed. Is strong-willed will come, and we had. You know, um, engaged a basketball advisor to help Malcolm find his right fit. And that was the whole goal.

Find the right fit. Yeah. And it is probably the greatest thing we did to help Malcolm in high school because, you know, it, it takes a village to get a kid to college. And there are so many things I’m sure Dr. Pamela, that you say to the student like, Hey. Here’s the deadline. You need to do this, you need to engage that.

You need to think about that. That if the parent says it, the kid ignores it, ignore, and then, or the parent is nagging or begging Right. Or cajoling or getting frustrated with the kid. Mm-hmm. And sometimes when a coach or an advisor says, Hey dude, it is time to do this, get it done. I’m, I’m supporting what you’re saying.

It preserves the relationship. It really does. Between the parent and the child. It really does. It’s the same way with me, with my own kids. They don’t listen to me. But they’ll listen to you. Yes. I mean, really, Dave and I would say it’s the best money we spent mm-hmm. On preparing for college was to bring support in that.

The primary support, right, that I’m sure you offer is for the student. Yes. And sometimes the support we were given is like, hey. Back away. We’ve given him the deadlines, let’s see what he does with it. You know, and it, and it also helped my son develop his executive functioning skills through the process as well.

Do you wanna speak to that? Absolutely, yes. Um, one of the key, um, tenets of our approach is that the child owns the process. And I know sometimes for us as parents, that can seem a little scary. I know for my oldest, I’m thinking like he can’t even show up on time. What do you mean? Own the process? But yes, the team owns the process and we’re coaching, guiding, giving them the tools and resources to help them with being successful.

Giving them that decision matrix that’s gonna help them with thinking through their decision and. They have all of those tools and they step up. They step up each and every time, and that’s great to see. And some parents are often surprised when they see it. They’re often surprised because at home, maybe they’re not cleaning up after themselves, but they show up for the meeting on time, they get their homework done, they’re ready.

They follow deadlines they turn in. Yeah. Applications they do. Yeah. Yeah. They sure do. What’s the number one mistake you see parents making and what’s the number one mistake you see the teens making for parents? I think it’s controlling the process in trying to control the outcomes. That’s the number one mistake that I see.

Yeah. And for the student, the number one. Mistake is not having confidence and being more afraid because of what they hear others saying. And it’s that influence from others. Their peer, you know, their peers didn’t get into a school and they automatically think, well I know I can’t get in. Mm-hmm. And stopping short.

Many times. And so that’s the mistake that we see and what we’re charged with doing is really supporting them with the knowledge to build their confidence and taking a chance. Yeah, I could see that being the number one mistake and I’d like to, you know, support that with this, for the listener, the, the two biggest things.

Teenagers wanna know is where do I fit in in the outside world? Where are my people? Where do I fit in? Yes. Right? And the number two thing they wanna know is, am I gonna be okay? Mm-hmm. And I think as a parent listening to this, the number one gift you can give your teenager. Regardless of what they’re doing, but especially when they’re seeking, what am I gonna do beyond high school is to assure them that no matter what, they are going to be okay if you approach them with that knowledge.

The knowingness. Yeah. We don’t have all the answers and you might not have gotten into your reach school and we’re gonna have to get some scholarships and loans, but what I know for sure. Daughter or son is that you are going to be okay and that I am always on your team. Right. And we need to say that to them over and over and over, out loud.

Yeah, exactly. Over and over again. We can never, you know, say it too many times. Exactly. Because they do need to hear that. And I see it so many times when students. You know, as they’re getting to senior years, all of a sudden, I wanna go local. I wanna stay local. And it’s just like, what are you afraid of?

What is it that you’re afraid of? And what I encourage them to do is, let’s still look at this range of colleges that we’ve been talking about, so that in the end of senior year you have options and then you can make the decision. But I don’t want them, you know, stopping short because they’re afraid that they’re not gonna be okay.

And saying, well, I’m not gonna even apply. Yes. And the number one contributor to that, that knowingness that they’re gonna be okay is you the parent you affirming, assuring, holding, even if you’re, even if you say, Lisa, he can’t even bring his dirty dishes out of the bedroom. How is he gonna own the college process?

You don’t verbalize that out loud. Right. You say to the kid, you are going to be okay because the, your outside voice becomes their inside voice. And what I know for sure at this point, having worked with thousands of families around the world, is your knowingness that your kid is going to be okay is a game changer in their confidence in themselves.

It really is. It really is. I, um, have a family now that. Their son has gotten into some great colleges, but they won’t let him leave home. And it’s like, you know, what is that about? You know? And the fact that they’re telling him, no, you need to go to this college that’s down the street. You know what, what message does that send to him?

And it’s tough, but you really do have to let them know that they’re gonna be okay. Yeah. And that’s, that’s what eventually does happen when you assure them of that. Well, when I think about your, your mission statement, which is partnering with parents to help their teen find a college that feels like home for some kids home is going to the college down the street, right?

Mm-hmm. And for some kids home is. Going away and experiencing a different Yeah. Part of the country. A different culture, a different landscape, a different, you know, autonomy and independence. And, you know, I think as the parent, our job is to figure out what’s gonna feel like home for our kid, not project our fears and our right, uh, goals onto our kid.

Right. Not, and not to globalize, catastrophize, or ruminate. Mm-hmm. About, mm-hmm. Our kid, but really listen to them about what’s gonna feel like home to them. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That’s it. Mm-hmm. Alright, well you have given us just so much liquid gold to work with here. So for the families that want more of you that want to reach out and they want your help in getting accepted into a COP top college or looking for that scholarship money.

Dr. Pamela, where can parents find you and your team? Yes, they can find us, [email protected], and they are welcome to reach out there. And the other place where I am on social media is LinkedIn, and so I have a great tool, which is the College Confidence Blueprint. And it’s a roadmap for college ninth through 12th grade, as well as a communication guide.

You know how to talk with your teens about college during those critical years, and they can send Blueprint 25 message me, blueprint 25, and I’ll send it over to them. And okay, listen y’all, you gotta go to LinkedIn and get Dr. Pamela’s blueprint. ’cause I can tell you from personal experience having a blueprint.

Having someone guiding you on guiding your kid is an absolute game changer in helping you pause and respond, which you know I’m a big fan of, right? Yes. Pause and respond rather than react, right? We wanna stay regulated as much as possible. ’cause I’m gonna tell you something, parents, if you don’t know this already, your kid is gonna be massively dysregulated.

Through the process where to apply the deadlines, the essays perseverating over, you know, the GPA and the, and then am I gonna get in? And then finding out Joey got in and I didn’t. And then you know, the decision and you know, all the preparing your teenager is going. To be dysregulated because they have an underdeveloped brain.

There’s a lot of anxiety, there’s a lot of anticipation, and the greatest gift you can give your kid is to stay regulated through the process. So I have no doubt that Dr. Pamela’s blueprint mm-hmm. Is the tool that’s going to help you stay regulated through the process. So we’re gonna link in the show notes to the blueprint and to her where to find her in the world.

Mm-hmm. Get the blueprint. Get the blueprint. Do your, even if your kid is in junior high, get the blueprint now because it will guide you along the path to staying regulated to pause and respond. When your kid’s dysregulated and they’re gonna be at a lot. Am I right? Yes. All, all the time. Everything you just said.

Ditto. Yeah. So this is my gift to you today, the introduction to Dr. Pamela and her team, compass College Advisory. Go find her. Tag her. Follow her. This is a gift, y’all. It’s a gift that you’re getting and, and a blueprint to stay regulated is the greatest gift you can give. Not only your kids, but your relationship with them through this rollercoaster.

I’m telling you, picking a school is like getting on Space Mountain for two years. And not getting off. So the more tools you have to help you enjoy Space Mountain, because you do get to enjoy it, it can’t be fun, right? The more tools you have, the better. Yes. Okay. So Dr. Pamela, a million thank yous for joining us today.

I am sure this is not the last time we will talk and have you on. I can’t wait to continue this series down the road. But in the meantime, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. With our real world peaceful parents. Thank you, Lisa. All right. Until next time, I’m wishing you Peaceful parenting. Thanks for listening to Real World Peaceful Parenting.

If you want more info on how you can transform your parenting, visit the peaceful parent.com. See you soon.